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美女科学家小保方晴子到底有没有造假?

2014-02-22 薛宇 科学网博客

   今年1月29日,Nature同期发表了两篇关于干细胞的论文,一篇article [1],一篇letter [2]。这两篇论文的第一作者都是日本学者小保方晴子 (Haruko Obokata), 并且小保方还是论文的共同通讯作者,1983年出生,绝对的年轻有为,并且还是个美女。第一篇论文主要报道了STAP (stimulus-triggered acquisiti

今年1月29日,Nature同期发表了两篇关于干细胞的论文,一篇article [1],一篇letter [2]。这两篇论文的第一作者都是日本学者小保方晴子 (Haruko Obokata), 并且小保方还是论文的共同通讯作者,1983年出生,绝对的年轻有为,并且还是个美女。第一篇论文主要报道了STAP (stimulus-triggered acquisition of pluripotency, 刺激触发的多能性获得) 这个现象的发现,即亚致死量的外界刺激,例如弱酸环境,可以将哺乳动物的体细胞重编程为多能细胞 (pluripotent cells),并报道了如何从STAP细胞中分离可扩增的多能细胞株 [1]。第二篇论文着重报告利用STAP获得的多能细胞可以与胚胎干细胞 (embryonic stem, ES) 形成嵌合体,并且对胚胎和胎盘等组织发育有贡献 [2](Nature:成熟体细胞经简单外部刺激即可逆转为干细胞

两篇论文一发表立即引起轰动。在Nature同期配发的评论文章指出,分化的细胞可以通过物理刺激重编程为胚胎类似的状态,并且使用了"...by a simple procedure" 来描述小保方等人提出的方法[3]。同时,小保方的论文摘要也强调,重编程的过程,既不需要核转移,也不需要遗传操作。而核转移和遗传操作的理念,正好分别是2012年诺奖获得者 John Gurdon和Shinya Yamanaka获奖的原因。如果STAP概念是正确的,说其是超越诺贝尔奖的发现,并不为过。

如果故事到这里,那就没啥再好讲的了:年轻的学者,取得轰动的成果,那好吧,反正诺奖已经发了,多锻炼锻炼身体,好好活着,争取活到下次发奖的时候吧。 所以一波未平一波又起,加州大学戴维斯分校的Paul Knoepfler,曾经专门在Nature上发文灌水并吹嘘自己在干细胞方面写博客多年经历 [4],并且从事表观遗传学和干细胞研究的学者,在Nature出刊的当天,也就是1月29日,在自己的博客上评述了小保方的工作,并提出了六个有待解决的问题,其中第一问题就是:这玩意儿能重复的出来吗 [5]?

开始只是小范围的评论,例如PubPeer在2月1日就有人指出,第一篇论文的Fig. 1i有点儿问题:"Figure 1i lane 3... At higher magnification the background of that lane 3 is darker than the rest of the gel. Also vertical straight change background on each side." 大概的意思就是说为啥DNA胶的第三个泳道要比其他部分更黑一点儿 [6]?当然,这不算完,2月13号有人在PubPeer上吐槽第二篇论文,说Fig. 1b和Fig. 2g是从独立不同的实验中获得,为啥看起来很相似 [7]?随后的形式看起来急转而下,Nature于2月17日发表的一篇新闻里,报道了学者对小保方等人实验结果的质疑,并表示这项工作已经开始被调查 [8]。这一消息在国内也迅速被转发和报道,例如果壳网就参考了Nature的报道,以及PubPeer和Paul的质疑等,对此事做了比较客观的报道 [9]。咱科学网自然也必然关注这事儿,比如激光的质疑 [10],刘进平老师的力挺 [11],一时间沸沸扬扬。归纳一下,主要的质疑就两点:

1. 论文有木有造假。Paul在他2月18日的博文里,指出小保方工作里“十大最奇怪问题”[12]。其中问题9里,他发现小保方等人在2011年的论文里有多处明显的数据重用,那么这两篇论文是不是也存在造假的嫌疑?

2. 这玩意儿是不是真的如Nature评论里忽悠的那样easy?这方法看起来就像是给细胞洗个澡就能重编程出多能细胞,真有那么简单?大家能重复的出来吗 [12]?

先说第一点。指责论文可能有问题的地方不多,翻来覆去其实就俩。第一个指责是第一篇论文的Figure 1i lane 3比其他地方黑一些,如下图所示。这个应该是从其他实验里切出来,然后放到一起。估计是做实验的学生急着毕业?这个图肯定是必然有问题了,不过问题也不 大,最多重新补个图得了,够不上撤稿。

第二个指责就是说第二篇文章的Fig. 1b和Fig. 2g比较相似,这个咱也上图。自己看,您瞅着这俩很像吗?感觉像是有那么点儿像,但要说这俩是一个东西,估计您还得拿出点儿证据来。

很仔细的搜索了各种吐槽,各种质疑,真正有说服力的也就这俩。而且第二个明显没有第一个的说服力强。就算第一个图有点儿问题,只要结果能重复,那最多最多 Nature会让第一篇论文加个Erratum了事。至于第二篇,Nature应该会直接忽略掉。当然第一篇论文是不是加个Erratum,这个估计 Nature还得琢磨琢磨,毕竟这玩意儿只是很多图里的一小部分,如果结论正确,估计Nature会装作没看见就得了。

所以第一个问题,至少从论文上来说,没有明显的造假证据,而且这两篇论文从2013年3月10月投稿,到12月20日才接受,修改过程中作者被批的昏头转向从而搞错点儿数据这个也可以理解。如果没有更多的证据,那第一个问题也就不成问题。

真正是问题的,是第二个问题。能重复的出来吗?Paul在自己的博客上专门开了个贴,专门转发其他研究组的验证结果 [13]。截止到现在,共有10位学者或研究组给出自己的研究结果,其中重复不出来的8个,正在做的1个,能重复的出来的1个 [13]。并且能重复出来实验的学者Yoshiyuki Seki在2月13日写到:"...In B27 + LIF medium, we can’t detect GFP-positive, while we can detect weak-GFP positive cells in serum + LIF. However, we observe many dead cells in GFP-positive clump." 也就是在B27 + LIF细胞里验证不了结果,但是在serum + LIF里可以检测到微弱的信号,但是还存在很多死细胞,所以这个重复的出来也是有限的重复。所以这一点才是小保方等人工作可能遇到的最大麻烦:如果大家都 重复不出来你的结果,STAP是否还正确?或者说,起码这不能够再是一个"a simple procedure"。当然,现有的证据已表明,给细胞洗澡可能不是想象中那么简单,Nature评论中的simple, 有过分夸大(overhyped)的嫌疑。

在Paul博客上的STAP第二周的调查结果中 (2月17日) [14],大约42%的投票者持positive态度,39%的投票者持negative态度,基本上持平,还有18%的投票者是酱油党,正在观望。而2 月3日的投票结果里 [15],positive与negative的比例是56%:33%,只有10%的投票者持观望态度。所以质疑的比例是增加的。

结论:(1) 千万甭指望什么调查组能调查个啥结果来,如果没有其他戏剧性的事情发生,最后的结论必然是木有问题,然后顺利过关;(2) 估计还是能重复的出来的,但也不会那么容易,君不见10个研究组折腾到现在也就一家获得有限重复?所以Nature说"simple",这玩意儿可真信不 得,但不这么忽悠谁还看这两篇论文?况且这种类型的忽悠那是有相当的优良传统的,看看咱大学的数学课本,到处都是“显见”,然后证明过程忽略直接给答案。 说说看,那个是“显见”?(3) 应用。这个大家还是洗洗睡吧,一堆人先重复出实验来再说。STAP是普适的,还是特例,这个Nature反正是信了,你信不信那就不知道了。    

参考资料:

1. Stimulus-triggered fate conversion of somatic cells into pluripotency.

2. Bidirectional developmental potential in reprogrammed cells with acquired pluripotency.

3. Cell biology: Potency unchained.

4. My year as a stem-cell blogger.

5. Review of Obokata stress reprogramming Nature papers.

6. PubPeer: "Stimulus-triggered fate conversion of somatic cells into pluripotency".

7. PubPeer: "Bidirectional developmental potential in reprogrammed cells with acquired pluripotency".

8. Acid-bath stem-cell study under investigation.

9. 小保方晴子干细胞突破性研究正在被审查.

10. 日本“美女科学家” 《自然》研究论文结果被质疑造假.

11. 我不相信美女科学家会造假

12. Top 10 Oddest Things About The Unfolding STAP Stem Cell Story

13. STAP NEW DATA

14. STAP stem cells week 2 poll results: more uncertainty

15. STAP stem cell poll: interesting results & regional differences

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  1. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
  2. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
  3. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
  4. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2014-02-22 丁广进

    这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。

    0

  5. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2014-02-22 赵广立

    能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊

    0

  6. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2014-02-22 印大中

    只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。

    0

  7. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2014-02-22 秦逸人

    听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。

    Three steps to fraud

    In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal.

    Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first.

    David Goodstein
    nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html

    0

  8. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2014-02-22 秦逸人

    文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了

    0

  9. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2014-02-22 姚凤銮

    能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗?
    说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。
    大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。

    0

  10. [GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1709304, encodeId=b7651e09304a5, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=3df6468696b' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#小保方晴子#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=57, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=46869, encryptionId=3df6468696b, topicName=小保方晴子)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=, createdBy=4c37265, createdName=hb2008ye, createdTime=Sun Jun 01 16:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-06-01, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1414182, encodeId=440f141418233, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=2eb694960ae' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#造假#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=72, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=94960, encryptionId=2eb694960ae, topicName=造假)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=565a3047179, createdName=doctor-chen9583, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=1573834, encodeId=1c5515e3834a1, content=<a href='/topic/show?id=af0a44e03a4' target=_blank style='color:#2F92EE;'>#女科学家#</a>, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=61, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[TopicDto(id=44703, encryptionId=af0a44e03a4, topicName=女科学家)], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=38cb15960013, createdName=zhty5342, createdTime=Mon Feb 24 14:21:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-24, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7640, encodeId=514ae64090, content=这两篇文章nature过审的时候一点都不顺利,估计还得亏了日本几位干细胞大牛。任何所谓的“简单”实验其实一点也不简单,发表文章总是有点吹嘘的,但是动物所的周琪说没重复出来也不好说,还有邓宏魁实验室也跃跃欲试,个人觉得这个实验重复肯定有一定的难度,最好是赶紧发个nature protocl或者nature method出来,当初iPS的质疑也是很大的。我个人倾向于文章是真的,也希望文章是真的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=137, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=丁广进, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:32:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7638, encodeId=a06de63803, content=能不能重复,小保方就得提供实验方法和实验条件供大家验证了,否则nagative也没说服力啊, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=156, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=赵广立, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7639, encodeId=abfde6395e, content=只要琢磨一下DNA甲基化与组蛋甲基化相关酶活性的最佳酸度范围,就可知道有没有造假。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=175, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=印大中, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:31:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7637, encodeId=0487e6373d, content=听说生物医学实验结果的可重复性比较低,所以 fraud 比较多。 假作真时真也假,真假难辨。 <br> <br> Three steps to fraud <br> <br> In every case of scientific fraud I knew of, I realized that three factors were present: the scientist was under career pressure; he thought he knew the answer, and didn’t need to go to all the trouble of obeying the scientific method; and he was working in a field where reproducibility was not precise. The last of these explained why fraud was almost always in biomedicine, where the truth is generally more statistical and less directly causal. <br> <br> Then, in 2002, two cases of scientific misconduct by physicists came to light, one involving Jan Hendrick Schon at Bell Laboratories, and the other Victor Ninov at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (LBNL). In both cases, the scientists were under career pressure (as most scientists almost always are) and both thought they knew the right answer. The test of my hypothesis would be the third factor. The Schon case fits like a glove. He apparently made a breath-taking series of discoveries in MOSFETs (metal-oxide semiconductor field effect transistors), a field that is notoriously sample-dependent: the fact that nobody could reproduce his results could just have meant that they had bad samples. Victor Ninov was a leader of the group at LBNL using the Berkeley Gas-filled Separator (BGS) to sort through the debris of nuclear collisions. In 1999, the group announced the observation of three instances of decay chains characteristic of the element 118. By international agreement, new elements are not official until their discovery has been reproduced, which groups in Germany and Japan immediately undertook to do — but both failed. In 2001, the BGS group produced a fourth signature decay chain. By now, suspicions had been aroused. A series of investigations ensued, in which it was found that the data for all four decay chains had been fabricated, and that Ninov was the only person in a position to have done it. Thus he had turned my third factor on its head. Ninov had assumed that his result would be reproduced — and that he would get the credit for discovering it first. <br> <br> David Goodstein <br> nature physics | VOL 3 | FEBRUARY 2007 | p. 73 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v3/n2/full/nphys526.html, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=129, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:30:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7636, encodeId=44c7e63678, content=文章出来,我就很震惊,一直关注,还打算重复做下呢,忙于基金申报,没有来得及就这么沸腾了。对于这样重大的突破,真心不希望被打压下去,但是科学是向着真理前进。我们看最后的调查结果和别的实验室的重复情况。STAP 第二篇nature 最后通讯是Wakayama,薛少不知道是否清楚他,我读博士时候就开始密切关注了,因为我博士期间就开始做小鼠nulear transfer了。Wakayama 1998年第一只cloned mouse出来,同样也是发了nature,不过过了2年了,还没有重复出来,直到2000年周琪用新的方法重复克隆了小鼠,报道在了核移植专业杂志cloning上。后来我们发现,wakayama的protocol 写的不对,有一样试剂浓度故意放大,我估计是为了拉开别的是实验室追上的距离吧。说不定,这个STAP 也是故意把某个重要环节的protocol 给写错了, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=141, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=秦逸人, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:29:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7633, encodeId=9ad2e63377, content=能不能重复确实很重要,但是,所有的Nature研究性论文都能被重复吗? <br> 说到底,论文延伸出来的利益太大了,无论谁都可能因此迷失了自己。 <br> 大部分论文其实还只是个副产品,如果能转化成产品,造福人类,才算是科学研究的最终目的。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=98, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=姚凤銮, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=), GetPortalCommentsPageByObjectIdResponse(id=7634, encodeId=f90be634cc, content=在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。 <br> 但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。 <br> 当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。 <br> 抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。 <br> 做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。, beContent=null, objectType=article, channel=null, level=null, likeNumber=106, replyNumber=0, topicName=null, topicId=null, topicList=[], attachment=null, authenticateStatus=null, createdAvatar=null, createdBy=f0620, createdName=张鹏举, createdTime=Sat Feb 22 23:28:00 CST 2014, time=2014-02-22, status=1, ipAttribution=)]
    2014-02-22 张鹏举

    在调查组没有给出结论之前,任何人都可以因为她的美与丑而盲目地作出个人无脑的判断。
    但是我们每个人对待科学真善美的追求却不能因为国籍的不同带有颜色。
    当然,我们也应该也允许那些随意地对科学真善美冠以冠以冠以国籍的人存在,日本比比皆是,我想中国也有。
    抗日电视剧对中国的发展和自己科研水平的提高,以及由科研水平提高对下一代的直接帮助不起任何正能量作用。
    做科学,用情太深容易演戏,做科学,用理太深容易。。。。。

    0

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